Simone Allan (right, with TrinityP3 CEO, Darren Woolley) is the Founder and CEO of Mondo Search and the joint founder of The Mentor Evolution, the mentoring platform of the TrinityP3 Marketing Mentor program. Simone shares her passionate belief in mentoring as the ideal way for individuals to enrich and develop their careers both as a mentor and a mentee. She also talks about the ability of mentoring to foster and encourage diversity in thought, beliefs and practices by creating sharing and inclusive communities.
You can listen to the podcast here:
Follow Managing Marketing on Soundcloud, Podbean, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Podcast and Amazon Podcasts (the USA, UK, Germany & Japan only)
Transcription:
Darren:
Welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast, where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
Today, I’m sitting down with Simone Allan, joint founder of Mentor Evolution, and founder and CEO of Mondo Search. Welcome, Simone.
Simone:
Thank you, Darren. I’m delighted to be here actually.
Darren:
Well, look, and I’m delighted that you could take the time and sit down and have this conversation because there are two parts I’ve always found fascinating.
The first is the role of recruiting or some people call it headhunting, which I think is quite an interesting visual. And then the sort of transition from looking and finding talent for people into what I see with mentoring as really being developing talent, isn’t it?
Simone:
Yeah, absolutely. It is.
Darren:
Is that how it happened for you?
Simone:
It kind of did. I was really fortunate, I suppose because I started with a large-scale recruitment firm. And through that period when I watched a lot of the successful people inside that organisation. And then setting up Mondo Search in ‘98, I started to see a pattern where those that were getting on in life had good counsel around them.
And I was asked to do a chair role for a not-for-profit and I had to interview all these really high-profile people. And each of them, the question I asked them, is how did you get to where you were. And all of them said, unanimously, that it was mentors; “I had good mentors.”
And it hit me between the two eyes that wow, mentoring is the key to leadership. Mentoring is the key to people progressing in their careers. I want to start pursuing that next to finding great talent. So, that’s how it started.
So, I went back to a school that I went to and offered to start programs of connecting the alumni of the school with other students that had gone on in their careers. Because I thought I never had that. In leaving school, I didn’t have mentors, but I found them along the way. And that’s how it started, the Mentor Revolution.
Darren:
And it’s really interesting, isn’t it? That mentoring can be everything from a very casual but meaningful relationship, right through to quite an organised or structured way of doing it. Do you think that there’s any benefit one way or the other or is just mentoring generally so important for career development?
Simone:
Yeah, that’s a great question, Darren. I think people get confused between mentoring and coaching and what is mentoring. And I constantly say mentoring is just sharing your own lived experience with someone else. And reflecting on what you did well or what you didn’t do well; learning from your mistakes as much as you’re building that culture of failing as much as like learning what you could’ve done differently.
I’m constantly sharing that with my team, the mistakes I made and how I could’ve done things differently; “Don’t make that mistake.”
So, I think that mentoring is yeah, sharing of your own experience and passing it to someone else. It’s really cathartic to reflect back and then share that with someone.
Darren:
Yeah. Some of the best mentors that I’ve had were just people that I casually met through my job or through the industry. And it was quite an informal mentoring. And then there’s been programs, like mentoring programs that have been quite formal and quite structured.
My personal experience is that the ones where it was more casual felt more meaningful because there was more of a commitment from me as someone looking for mentoring to actually participate in it, compared to the ones where there was somehow a program being run that I had to fit into.
Is that your belief or do you think the starting point is mentoring is so important, it doesn’t matter where it comes from?
Simone:
Well, I think that mentoring, there are certainly some formal programs and people, everyone likes a little bit of structure, and some people prefer structure, really need structure. Others don’t. So, I think that both have got real value.
Sometimes, the formal programs don’t hit the mark at all because it is too prescriptive and there’s not that room for creativity. You need that kind of space around things at times to really be creative. But both have their value.
And obviously, the TrinityP3 mentoring platform has that fantastic facility where people can look at the opportunity to self-match or they can really get someone that’s structured and right for them. They’ve got TrinityP3 to help them, or they can reach for their own mentor, which I think is really clever.
Darren:
Yeah, because I read somewhere that Australia has got one of the lowest mentoring rates in the world, is that true?
Simone:
Yeah. I think it’s really sad that Australia if you look at some of the other countries even America, I remember years ago, Darren, a fabulous and real successful sales gun, he just kept jumping in his career. And I said to him, “What is it?” He goes, “I look for the old guys to teach me things.”
In fact, when he was at Coke, he said, Coca-Cola sent a guy called Chuck to just jump in the car with all the reps and drive around to manage the convenience sector. And Chuck taught them stuff that no one else did. And I think we don’t do that enough in this country. Inter-generational learning is a bit lost. We fire people at 50, 55, they’re gone; “They’re too tired, let them go.”
And I think that this inter-generational learning gets lost. And there’s a fantastic study called the residual effect that showed ─ and I think I was sharing this recently; that it was a little suburb in America that had low health problems, not much heart disease, really healthy, little suburb. They couldn’t understand why. They looked at the diet. Like, “Why is this suburb so healthy?”
And there wasn’t anything extremely different. Yes, they had a Mediterranean diet, but so did many other suburbs. And they realised it was that four to five generations all lived in the same suburb together. And so you had your great aunt and your uncle, and you had all these people around you. It takes a village to raise a child.
And I think that that’s the sad thing in Australia. There’s just not enough of grabbing your old uncle or your aunt or … and now, we’re losing it inside the workplace because everyone’s working … well, the working from home is fantastic in so many ways, giving flexibility and so forth. But you can’t stand at the water cooler.
And I learned a lot of my stuff in life by standing by more experienced peers that grabbed me and told me, “This is how you behave in this meeting. This is how you pitch, this is how you’re going to present to the David Jones buyer.” All those things I learned not through reading it in a textbook. I learned it from older peers that took me under their wing.
Darren:
So, it’s interesting, you picked up on how ageism is alive and well in advertising, particularly. But also, to a broader extent in marketing. In that, I think there was a study done or a view in Australia that if you’re over 50 and working in an advertising agency, it’s not long before you’re going to be restructured out. That suddenly all this knowledge walks out the door.
And I think it’s justified because people say to themselves because they go, “Oh, well, technology’s changing. And what have those old people got to tell us?” It’s an all-new digital world and they don’t know anything about digital. But it’s not true because human beings are exactly as they were a hundred thousand years ago.
Simone:
Yeah, same motive, same instincts. So, none of that’s changed. In fact, I quite love that series, I’m a bit addicted to it, Younger, where I don’t know if you’ve seen it.
Darren:
No, I haven’t, tell me about it.
Simone:
48-year-old woman getting a job in marketing. And she had to pretend she was 26, but, but she actually ends up winning the hearts and souls of the whole company, because she’s got this worldly wisdom and she just has to Google how to set up a Twitter account, or how to set up Instagram.
Darren:
Had to act younger to get the job.
Simone:
Younger, but the marketers love her because she’s got all this worldly wisdom and is disguised as a 26-year-old, but she gets away with it. I don’t know, I’m sure there are some listeners out there who are a bit addicted to it as well.
Darren:
So, Simone, the other thing you mentioned earlier is the TrinityP3 Marketing Mentors program. And the fact is that we went through a pilot using the mentoring platform from the Mentor Evolution. And one of the things that I learnt personally during that process, because I thought at my stage of career, that I wouldn’t … where would mentoring fit with me? I’m happy to be a mentor.
But I actually took on being a mentee and selecting a mentor and I got so much out of it. So, it actually taught me that what’s that saying about lifetime learning? If you’re always open to learning, if you’re always wanting to learn something new, you’re never too old, are you?
Simone:
No, curiosity. If you lose that curiosity in life, what’s the point of living? But someone said to me, “I love yoga.” And someone said to me, “Do you want to do yoga teacher training?” I said, “Not to be a teacher because I always want to be a student. I just want to learn, learn, learn.”
But I think, yeah, in roles like yourself, Darren, where you are often having to make decisions and be the one at the front, trying to forge your way through whatever the economy is going to throw at us next. But it’s refreshing when you’ve got a fresh set of eyes that can give you a different perspective. So, yeah, there’s so much that young guns …
In fact, a lot of the programs that the Mentor Evolution have run with schools, we’ve always thought it would be the mentees that have all the wonderful benefits they got from their mentor. But in fact, it’s the mentors that are often writing down all the things they learned from their mentee.
“You know, they taught me all these new tricks on social media” or “They actually made me reflect on something I did in my past and it was cathartic. And I actually was able to close the door on it and reflect that it was actually not that bad after all or whatever. So, there are just some beautiful gems of stories where mentors end up raving fans after participating.
Darren:
Well, because that was something that really delighted me, was that the way the platform, the mentoring platform allows you to choose to be a mentor or a mentee or both. Because of so many of the structured programs, mentoring programs I’ve personally experienced in the past, you had to be one or the other. That it just didn’t seem to be able to accommodate someone that could possibly want both. So, I think that it’s absolutely fabulous.
And share with me how you came about because it’s actually called the Mentor Cloud, isn’t it? The actual technology is the Mentor Cloud. But your company Mentor Evolution actually represents this platform.
Simone:
Yeah, we have the license in Australia and New Zealand, and we’re very grateful to have the license because we believe it’s the best technology in the world. It was built by a robotics engineer and he had a passion as well for mentoring. He’s written a lot of books.
And I was running these high touch programs in schools, screaming out for technology. Because if anyone’s ever run their own mentor platform or a mentor matching program, the nightmare is the Excel spreadsheets with all the contacts and the names and matching people. And it’s hard work. And then making sure that they’re all connected.
And so, having a platform with a dashboard, so you can see who’s matched to who and who’s had communication with who is really powerful. So, we were very fortunate because we’d proven to run programs at a high touch level. We were trusted to have the license for this technology. And it really is really superb and they’re constantly improving it. So, yeah, it is a great piece of technology.
And I have to say something, Darren, my own experience before the technology, a friend of mine rang me and said would I mentor his son and he was 26 or something. And I said, “Why not?” Anyway, this young gun is just a really terrific really entrepreneurial kid. And we became very great friends actually, really, really good friends to the point where I felt a bit weird.
I’d text him a bit and he’s my friend’s son. I had my 50th birthday a couple of years ago. And anyway, I invited my mate and his wife; not the son, because I thought his son’s only 28. He’s not going to come to my 50th. And I opened the front door and who storms in? But the son first with a big hug and a present for my 50th.
And I said, “Oh, Sammy, I didn’t know you were coming.” And he said, “I wouldn’t miss it for the world.” It’s just the friendship that I built through just the one-on-one mentoring with him, it’s what do they say intimacy is? Into you see me. I love those words.
And yeah, in this world where friendship’s the … I heard Lindsay Fox the other day talk about what was the definition of success to him. And he said-
Darren:
That would be interesting.
Simone:
Yeah, right? Well, he’s in the top 250 richest men in the world, in Australia. And he said friends, family, and faith. But I thought, wow, friends, family is that concept that’s really important in life. It’s that deep connection with someone. That’s the only thing people aren’t going to remember, as they say, is a deed ─ they’re gonna remember really how you made them feel.
And actually, another wonderful mentor to me, he said to me, life’s about that dash on the gravestone. It’s not the year you were born and the year you died. It’s what you did with that dash in the middle. And that’s about building really genuine long-term relationships that mean value.
Darren:
Well, and there’s another saying, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. And so, building networks of people is such an important part of it. But I wonder sometimes, and whether you’ve observed this; that as the world seems to become more and more specialised, that people end up living their lives in silos.
And so, we’re not getting that horizontal exposure, that is part of building a diverse and wonderful network as well.
Simone:
Yeah, the statistics around diversity and mentoring are really quite powerful. Certainly, with elevating gender opportunities, definitely. Goldman Sachs have done a report that that said that 70% of women mentored were promoted to MDs within five years.
Darren:
That’s fantastic.
Simone:
That’s a great one. And the other one is around the diversity of race. Mentoring builds understanding. Getting into you see me, that’s the great thing. And so, having leaders mentoring other young guns, they can start to see the potential of people that maybe they didn’t see before.
And if we’re all often working from home, it’s hard to be able to see the potential particularly sometimes introverts that aren’t the ones to put their hand up. And so, through formal mentoring, often the introverts can come out a little bit and be seen. And I think what’s the other stat?
Darren:
Actually, sorry, it’s interesting you raised that because some of the mentors in the pilot program who have now come across into the new launch program are the ones that you would call introverts because they’re quite introspective and hold their own counsel, but they were the ones that were the most passionate about the program because it created an opportunity for them.
It created a connection and it did it in a way that there was no confrontation. The way the platform worked of recommending people to either be a mentor or a mentee, really made it quite easy for them to connect together.
And I love that idea of there is a community in our case, for TrinityP3 Marketing Mentors. Here’s a community of people who all self-identify as being in marketing. And then the platform that you’re providing really facilitates the people joining together in the combinations that are absolutely right for them at that moment. I mean, you must see that as absolutely rewarding.
Simone:
Gold. It’s so special to connect communities together because the opposite of connection is disconnection and isolation, which we’ve all experienced, particularly in the last 12 months. We all know what it’s like to be more isolated than ever before.
So, it’s a really powerful time to embrace mentoring and yeah, I think that it’s more than ever today, you need to find ways to connect deeply with others.
Darren:
The other thing that’s happened and when I talked about silos, there’s also a diversity of thought and experiences, isn’t there?
Simone:
Very much so.
Darren:
Because we certainly have the definitions around gender, culture, race, age. There are the very obvious things, but there’s also this fabulous diversity of experience, the diversity of thought, the diversity of expertise.
And I see this in marketing, that there’s everything from the media salesperson right through to the ad tech person, to the data analyst, to the creative person, advertising agency, to the marketer. This is one huge ─ what do they call it? An ecosystem, but I prefer to call it a community. And the idea that mentoring can help bring a level playing field that allows all of those people to interact.
Simone:
Yeah, I think really, really important … because marketers do tend to ─ I know, we’ve done a lot of hiring in the Mondo Search business for marketing directors over the years, and you often get one or the other. They’re highly creative or the highly analytical … which’s really good on the statistics side and backing everything with research and evidence or the other of the highly creative that just naturally knows.
So, for either end of the spectrum, like you say, finding a mentor that can almost balance or a mentee-
Darren:
And complement.
Simone:
Complement you and your approach is huge, huge. Like that’s just really, really powerful for your output. Yeah, really important.
Darren:
And I would imagine you would have seen a big change in recruitment, especially in executive roles that as the world’s become more specialist, people … and you’ve progressed in your career. Have you heard of the capability T? It’s a T shape where you’re wanting people that are specialists in one area, but a generalist across the top of the T.
That would become incredibly difficult to get that general experience if it wasn’t for the opportunities to have that sort of cross-thinking, wouldn’t it?
Simone:
That’s right.
Darren:
Is that a trend that you’ve seen?
Simone:
Very much so. In fact, I was just talking about this with a client recently that very few organisations will transfer people from say, one discipline of say, finance into marketing, and then give them an opportunity to run logistics, and then sales. That just doesn’t happen.
It used to happen pre-GFC a little bit more and even working in other countries. Like I remember the eighties, nineties, people would get opportunities to go and work in other cities for large corporations like Diageo. Companies like that that you’d see these great little marketers and they’d get opportunities to go and work in another country.
After GFC, that stopped partly because companies just didn’t have the funds around the world to transfer people from say, working in the Sydney office to the New York office. It just stopped and died. And obviously, with COVID, there was no choice. It was just shut down.
So, diversity of thought has kind of slowed down a bit because there’s not that mix that we used to have. So, now, more than ever, finding mentoring and connecting and finding mentees is really important, the diversity of thought.
Darren:
Yeah, I love that idea of thinking of diversity holistically. I remember having a conversation with someone that was the director of diversity, and very quickly, I found out that they actually meant diversity of gender. And that was their remit, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with because I think it’s one of the big challenges for business generally.
But I do think as having come from a background, and having a creative mind, creativity comes from making new connections, seeing new patterns. And how are you ever going to see a new pattern unless you have the largest possible pallete to actually be your playground.
The bigger that you make the pallete, the more opportunity there is for new connections and therefore new creativity, innovation, all of the things that I hear businesses saying that they want, but are not creating the opportunities.
Simone:
Yeah. Well, I think we can make the pallete bigger and we can create space now, in a way with COVID because with posts, because people now don’t have to wait for three weeks and get an air ticket and fly to Brisbane to have a meeting with someone. You can literally say, “I’ll Zoom you tomorrow, I’ll Zoom you in an hour.”
So, people have really embraced that form of technology. And that’s why yeah, mentoring, you don’t have to physically wait till you can both catch up and meet at a certain coffee shop. You can just say, “Let’s have an hour of power next Friday afternoon. Great. Look forward to it.”
So, now, you wouldn’t have to stop with gridlock and traffic. And so, it’s fantastic people have embraced that connection opportunity with this technology. So, yeah, I think there’s so much opportunity to create deeper connections faster.
And what do they say? The advertising, the more white space, the better ─ yeah, the white space, the connections, building connections with speed. We can do it so much more efficiently now with tools like Teams and Zoom.
Darren:
Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it? Because two years ago, it was either face-to-face meetings or teleconferences. Now, it’s only Zoom, Teams and Google Meets. It’s like even just to have a conversation in the past, you would have had by phone, everyone wants to see you while you’re doing it.
Simone:
Yeah, it’s quite extraordinary, actually. We just recently did a CEO search role and I said to the board, “Do you want me to come in now and meet you all?” “No, no, it’s fine.” I was just like-
Darren:
Everyone wants to sit at home.
Simone:
“No, it’s okay. We just rather have our dog next to us and yeah, no, you don’t have to bother with that.” And how cool is that? In the old days, they had to physically make sure … check you out. Like it’s just great. I think there’s so much opportunity for creating bigger round tables of connections than ever before. Yeah, it’s pretty cool.
Darren:
Well, that’s one of the other things, is that the technology has made more people available. I mean, I’ve been really surprised with the calibre of the people that have put their hand up, wanting to mentor on the TrinityP3 Marketing Mentor program, because it’s just as they say; it’s an hour of my time once a week, once a fortnight and they get so much out of it, and they can do that because of the technology.
This is great because, in the past, it was very hard to get really high calibre people because they would not have time. But they all see this as something that’s really worthwhile.
Simone:
Really worthwhile. It’s good we’re seeing it in the schools. We’re seeing the peer to peer, the buddying, it’s starting in primary school and the younger, the senior, year fives are being matched up with the younger ones. And it’s so important.
There’s a study … well, there are thousands of studies where Gallup have done a lot around the fact that people feel 85% more engaged if they feel someone’s got their back.
I’ve led a search business on my own for 23 years, but I have mentors who are right beside me for every decision I make. And that’s just so important. I find mentors half the time. They don’t give you the answers, but they just help you. I kind of liken it to they help you work out what’s your priorities and sometimes it’s hard to see the priority.
And I’d imagine too, a lot of the TrinityP3 marketing professionals have often got about 65 balls they’re juggling and different clients. And just working out really what’s the most important, big rock you’ve got to get nailed that week, sometimes you just need someone that’s external that can just look at all the lists of projects you’ve got on and say, “This is really your priority even though you don’t see it as the most important. This is the main project you’ve got to get managed by the end of this quarter.” And I think sometimes you just can’t see the trees for the forest or the forest for the trees.
Darren:
Yeah, because they’re bringing their perspective of their experience too, which will be different from yours as the mentee, which is really interesting.
Simone:
Yeah, and sometimes you just get a bit passionate about one thing and you think that’s what you’ve got to nail where they’ll kind of say, “Really, this is your priority over all the other stuff.” So, yeah.
Darren:
So, Simone, from your experience and obviously, seeing people being mentored and people being mentors; what do you think’s the key ingredient to success if someone’s thinking about looking for a mentor or wanting to find a mentor? What’s the sort of intention or the objectives that you think they should have?
Simone:
So, what the mentee should have?
Darren:
Yeah. So, if there’s someone sitting there, going they’re in their career, they’re working ─ because one of the things that we’ve specifically said is that we’re not looking for students with marketing. We want people working in the industry because we want this platform to be an opportunity for people to advance their careers.
Simone:
That’s right.
Darren:
Whereas the student will be looking at it from the point of view of how do I get into the industry, which is a totally different dynamic.
But I’m just wondering if you have advice for someone that’s sitting there going COVID’s really disrupted my career, I’m not really sure about the future. What’s the mindset, I guess, I’m asking what you think is the way to access mentoring or to put your hand up for this?
Simone:
I think have an abundant mindset, obviously, and take off your judgment cap because who you think might be right for you … I just sometimes find my best teachers are the people that maybe I wouldn’t have thought were my best teachers.
Sometimes yeah, it’s that accidental prophet that sometimes steps in your way that you just … it’s the ─ so I would say-
Darren:
The serendipitous connection.
Simone:
Yeah. And often, you just suddenly realise this was meant to happen, even though it wasn’t what you planned. So, I suppose just having an open mindset, don’t be judgy. And have some defined goals in your mind as to what you want to achieve and be prescriptive with your mentor. Because I think mentors get a bit frustrated if they don’t really know what you’re wanting out of the partnership.
So, I was coming to see you today, Darren, and my colleague said to me here, “What are you going to ask for?” I said a cup of tea if he asks me.
Darren:
You knew specifically what you wanted.
Simone:
But you gave me a beautiful cup of tea in the most gorgeous cup and pot, beautiful. But yeah, just be really prescriptive.
I find that in the executive search business, I find it frustrating when people just say, “Can you help me with my career?” And I just feel like, oh, well … I’ve really like people to say, “I want to be Marketing Director of Google, or I would like to be a CEO of an association and how am I going to get there?”
So, be prescriptive if you can with what you want as a mentee, because I think that is very helpful for a mentor because they can go, “Right, this is how I can help you.” And you might discover you only need a couple of meetings and they’ll say, “That’s all my insight that I can share with you, the only things I can help you with so far.”
The other thing is to be really fearless. And I say that the word “fearless,” the definition for me is to not be afraid to say what you’re not afraid to think. So, be fearless and open and honest with your mentor. Say deep down, get off the rubbish on the top level, get to the heart stuff. Talk really deeply about where you’ve been and where you want to go because that’s very endearing for a mentor.
I recently found this incredible woman in government that I liked from the minute I met her because I was talking to her about a school program that we were launching in mentoring a high-profile school that had suffered some really terrible mental challenges with 12 girls.
And she was quick to say, “Oh, I can relate to that. I was deeply bullied at school.” And I just loved her vulnerability. I immediately wanted to work with this woman because she was just so honest about something that had happened to her right upfront with me and so, I think that’s-
Darren:
Well, that builds trust, doesn’t it?
Simone:
It does.
Darren:
When someone is willing to demonstrate a vulnerability that they’ve dropped the performance, the mask, the pretence, suddenly it becomes two people that are actually showing empathy for each other. That they’re there for each other.
It’s interesting because it was exactly the feedback that comes back from the mentors, is that the most rewarding relationships first gave them a profound sense of making a contribution. And secondly, that they engaged with someone at a level that you would never do in a business environment in that it would be deeply personal.
That it wasn’t the hundreds of conversations that you have in your workplace. It’s totally different when you’re actually in that mentor or mentee relationship,
Simone:
That’s right. There’s often agenda, so you’ve got to be careful with your Ps and Qs with maybe a colleague or something. But when you’re with someone, there’s been no agenda, they’re just genuinely there just to try to help you in some way, it’s quite beautiful. And we know all the studies about amazing pheromones and hormones being released when someone helps someone.
Remember the Sydney Olympics ─ some people won’t remember it, but I do. That period of time was just like we’re all in seventh heaven because we had all the volunteers around Australia wanting to … it’s that sense of that buddying and helping … remember the Sydney volunteers for-
Darren:
Yeah.
Simone:
They were all on fire loving, just showing people around the city.
Darren:
Well, I think we use words like “community” sometimes quite flippantly. But when you do actually create a community of people that are bonded together by wanting to mutually benefit each other and the whole, there is a deep and profound sense of belonging and reward that comes from that, isn’t there?
Simone:
Yeah. I think that’s the one big driver that so often people say, “I don’t belong, I’m not good enough.” These words are silly words that we all … the crazy flatmate in our head says.
And I have to congratulate you, Darren, because there are not many associations that get it as you do about the power of mentoring and what that’s going to do … it’s going to transform your community with deeper connections of real, honest, sharing, and helping ─ that’s all it is; honest, sharing and helping. It’s so important.
I’m a surf lifesaver in a surf club and I see that in the surf club so often because we’re all there together, helping someone who’s physically not in a great place on the beach and that sense of community is big in a surf club.
Darren:
Simone, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s called surf lifesaving. It has a profound sense of purpose.
I hope at the least that what the marketing mentor program can do is give everyone working in marketing in Australia and New Zealand a profound sense of belonging to something greater than the individual parts.
And look, I’ve just noticed the time. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down.
I have got one question and this is a deeply personal question; through your career, who would you say is the mentor that’s really given you the most in that relationship?
Ideal for marketers, advertisers, media, and commercial communications professionals, Managing Marketing is a podcast hosted by Darren Woolley and special guests. Find all the episodes here