A year can be a long time in marketing. Technology, data, media channels and more are driving relentless change. But imagine if you take on the responsibility of managing a much-loved brand that has existed for 150 years. What would be the challenges and issues you would be dealing with today?
Chris Illman took on that challenge when he joined the Bickford’s Group of Companies as the Group Marketing Manager eleven years ago. Today, he is the Head of Group Sales, Marketing and Hospitality at Bickford’s Group, and he shares the market challenges of innovating the Bickford’s brand
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In that apothecary, William and Ann Bickford sold syrups and tonics that had alcohol. So, we have the license, we have the storytelling to justify that.
Transcription:
Darren:
Hi, I am Darren Woolley, founder and CEO of TrinityP3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.
If you’re enjoying the Managing Marketing Podcast, please either like, review, or share this episode to spread the words and wisdom from our guests each week.
A year can be a long time in marketing, technology, data, media channels are all driving relentless change. But imagine if you take on the responsibility of managing a brand that’s existed for 150 years, what would be the challenges and issues you’d be dealing with today?
My guest took on that very challenge when he joined the Bickford’s Group of companies as group marketing manager 11 years ago. Today, he’s the head of group sales, marketing, and hospitality at Bickford’s Group. Please welcome to the Managing Marketing Podcast, Chris Illman.
Welcome, Chris.
Chris:
Hi, Darren. Thanks for having me, mate.
Darren:
Look, Chris, you did take on a big challenge there. When you’ve got an Australian brand that’s loved and so well established, and yet I can only imagine with the way that the retail landscape is changing and the marketing landscape’s changing that you would’ve also, taken on quite a few challenges.
Chris:
We have, mate, yes. probably the best way to describe it, Bickford’s is a brand that has been available for over 150 years in one way or another.
So, we have a requirement, probably an important requirement to ensure that we hold true a lot of key elements of that brand that was developed way back in 1839 when William Bickford moved to South Australia, and he opened an apothecary in Rundle Street in little old Adelaide.
And we take it very, very seriously in terms of maintaining key elements of that trademark, because ultimately, we want this trademark to live for 150 years more and we hand over a great brand to the next tranche of brand owners to ensure that we maintain this legacy of quality as well as trust. Bickford’s has been trusted for a long, long time, and we take that very, very seriously.
Darren:
It’s interesting that it started as an apothecary, because in those days, that was almost like today’s pharmacy. It was the place that the public would go to get their health and wellness products.
Which would’ve established the brand very much in being quite a trusted place, positioning when it moved into the cordials. Because that’s what happened, didn’t it? It went from being apothecary to really building a reputation and brand for the beverages.
Chris:
It did. So, William and Ann Margaret again, around that 1839 period moved into tonics and syrups and a pharmaceutical style of portfolio.
And it wasn’t until 1845 when there was a bunch of brown limes that were actually put on a boat to come over to Adelaide. Because as it turns out, lime is very high in vitamin C, and as a consequence of that, it helps cure or maintain a level of healthiness, but maintain cure in relation to scurvy.
So, when those limes arrived in Adelaide, William being quite a smart entrepreneur, he thought of an opportunity of adding sugar to reduce some of the acid, add a little bit of water, and take that brown lime, which was useless to anyone into a hydration beverage, which was the original lime cordials.
Back in those days, he made 84 bottles a day. Today, we’re making a little bit more like 24,000 bottles an hour. But moving on from that, one of the-
Darren:
That’s a lot limes, Chris.
Chris:
It is, it is. And we have the highest lime concentrate within our lime cordial at the moment. And again, we take great pride in maintaining a formula that has been tried and true over a long period of time.
But going back to it, what William and Ann did was set a foundation for that brand, which is family owned, trusted, ensuring high standing quality. And as a consequence of that, everything that we try and do with the Bickford’s trademark continues to leverage off that experience.
And again, an apothecary pharmacy, you are trusted to be able to provide great solutions to your customer to help them in their everyday life.
And in some respects, we are doing a lot of those similar things with the core portfolio that we have in Bickford’s, which is cordials, juices, syrups, and our carbonate range, alongside of our plant-based drinks that we have within the portfolio.
Darren:
Yeah. Now, one of the things that as you said, you’ve inherited a trademark that just reeks of tradition. The label, the logo type, the presentation, particularly the edition … what’s it called? The Collector’s Edition that I’ve seen on the shelves.
Was there any thought about modernizing it? Because it seems that the strategy was to actually double down on that tradition. It just reeks a very traditional sort of establishment.
Chris:
Yeah, a hundred percent. So, one of the things that we really sort of tried to ascertain in the livery update … and probably if you take a step back from the strategy perspective, when you look at especially our Bickford’s juices.
So, we are a major player in the juices category, ambient juices category. And a lot of consumers don’t necessarily know that. They know our style, they know our offer, but they don’t necessarily relate the brand back to Bickford’s cordial within that juices category. So, we really pioneered juices initially to bring that livery to life.
And when we were looking at our Bickford’s core trademark, what is very, very important, no great surprises here, is that from a trademark cut through perspective, the word Bickford’s has been synonymous in hydration for a long, long time.
So, one of the most important things is to ensure that trademark is proud and of scale on packaging that enables the consumer to pick that up very, very quickly.
Around the Bickford’s trademark, we have a little, I call it a squiggly line. If you actually go to the brand market, it’s called a filigree. Now, that filigree brings wonderful tradition. And that when you look at across all of our iterations over the last 20 to 30 years, what you’ll find is the consistency around that label is the filigree.
So, again, when we are looking at an update, one of the most important things to do is what are the key elements that the consumer understands around your trademark? And therefore, what are the not negotiables?
And certainly, those not negotiables is the word, when the aerated waters business started since 1874. So, again, that continues to build on that traditional element.
But to your point, what we know that the consumer expects, the consumer expects ease of understanding of key functional call out on pack. And to be honest, they want to lean in on great visuals. I guess they want to be communicated to get a very clear understanding quickly of what am I going to get?
And again, I’ll use juices as the example. The previous illustrations and imagery we had on bottle, they were fine for the time. They were fine for the 2005s to the 2024s.
Today’s consumer expects more, they expect more depth, they expect more storytelling. And the little things that we’ve done with the imagery is actually bring more depth, more color, and I guess, yeah, again, more information in that imagery as well too. So, allowing the consumer to get a bit of senses to the fruit that goes in there.
And the classic example with pomegranate. Previously the visual had just some pomegranates and the arrows within it were very hard to see. We’ve really doubled down on the arrows within that pomegranate.
So, the consumer understands, well, what does the pomegranate fruit really look like? And therefore, they get a real sense as to ultimately what is the core fruit, and then how does that then play through into the finished beverage.
Last but not least, the consumer, again, wants quick and easy information. So, we’ve really heroed Australian made, Australian owned on front of pack now, as well as that health star rating. Because again, that key information is determinant for purchase.
And we want to clearly seeing our virtues of being Australian made, Australia owned very, very loudly because it’s a key determinant. Because especially in the juices category what we find is that our competitors, the majority of them, 99.9% are all internationally owned, internationally manufactured.
There are one or two local manufacturers of juices. But a large proportion of the quantity available is all internationally owned, internationally made. So, we really want to double down again on our position as an entrepreneurial business, Australian owned with product that’s Australian made.
And that product that’s Australian made, is made at the biggest factory in Salisbury, south Adelaide, and has been for almost 18 years at that location. And previous to that, other locations in Adelaide. So, that formula, that location, and that history continues to be South Australia.
Darren:
There’s also, some really strong reasons for that as far as export goes, because Australia does have a very good reputation for food security and food quality.
So, particularly in your plant-based and fruit-based beverages (or I notice you call them hydration products, but beverages I’ll stick with) that would then wreak for an export market of quality and security, wouldn’t it?
Chris:
Oh, a hundred percent. And that enables us to especially export to Asia and even a bit wider, we have put our products into market like the UK and the US as well too, for that very reason that that traditional packaging also, resonates with international customers, because that tradition says quality.
And as long as we maintain a high-quality beverage our consumers, whether locally or internationally will continue to pick it up.
But absolutely, our accreditation that we have for our manufacturing ensures that we make a high-quality beverage day in, day out. And therefore, consumers have that trust and they continue to come back to the brands as a consequence.
Darren:
I have to say, I am glad you’re highlighting the Australian made because for many years I thought it was actually a European or English brand because of that old English font that the logo type is done in. It gives it that sense of being quite English. But of course, that would happen because what was it, 1874-
Chris:
1874, yeah.
Darren:
Yeah. Australia was really a small part of England in the middle of or at the southern part of Asia, wasn’t it? It was a English colony.
Chris:
Well, it was. Yeah. Well, Adelaide was a free settled colony. So, we didn’t necessarily have convicts as such coming in and setting up infrastructure, setting up business. We had free settling entrepreneurs who came into Adelaide and set up what was important businesses to get this particular colony going.
And that was certainly the case with William and Ann as they came in and took their English heritage, transplanted that into Adelaide, South Australia.
And you’re a hundred percent right, we continue to lean in on that when it comes to packaging. Because whilst we don’t necessarily hero those roots as such, you can get that sense through packaging.
But even the modern consumer today, who doesn’t necessarily connect with that story, the story they connect with today is modern functional elements of our portfolio.
So, again, if I use juices as the example. Our prune juice, that enables a great high fiber drink to help with digestion, to help with health. And as a consequence of that, the consumer is buying into the functional elements of that brand. Not necessarily the traditional nature, but the assistance around quality and confidence comes from those traditional cues.
Darren:
Now, one of the other things just in our conversation here, I’m listening to this product extension. And this is, one of the things that they say, a test of a good brand or a strong brand is how much elasticity there is to go into product innovation. We’ve talked about cordials, juices, plant-based hydration products.
How far do you think this Bickford’s brand can stretch having such established credentials amongst your core customers? How many product areas have you moved into already and are there any that you think are definitely off limits? What’s the sort of parameters that the company has set for itself?
Chris:
So, great question. When you look at the way back when, so Bickford’s cordials was the tried and true first mover in the category that existed back in 1874. So, that flavor enhancer to water. And again, the reason why lime cordial started in the first place was it was a byproduct of a visiting … sorry, to take a step back.
When you have a look at Bickford’s cordial, it was originally a byproduct from limes that came to Australia on a boat. So, that turned into very much a functional element to help consumers of the day to provide vitamin C.
So, a lot of innovation that we do must have under the Bickford’s trademark, a functional element to support the consumer in adding value to their life.
So, the reason why Bickford’s prune juice ends up being either number one or two in the category (currently, number one), the reason being is because it is a functional beverage from a tried and true trademark that enables the consumer to make better choices to lead a healthier life.
So, a lot of the innovation that works leverages against that. So, where innovation hasn’t necessarily worked is either where we have a very, very strong incumbent in the category that we’re unable to unsettle or unseat.
So, the example there is we innovated a couple of years ago with dairy. So, we have a modern manufacturing system here in Adelaide where we can aseptically fill recycled PET bottles. We procured dairy, we added iced coffee syrup to it, and made a dairy iced coffee drink.
Now, the challenge with that is that whilst the consumer understood it was a trusted product from a great brand, we were unable to unsettle the major market leader at that particular point in time because they were just too big and just too strong.
So, what we try to do is ultimately innovate in line with our customer’s needs and consumers expectations, but fail fast. So, in that particular instance, we gave that a crack, we weren’t able to get cut through. But what we in instead put a lot of effort into is plant-based. So, similar formula, different flavors, but went down the plant-based route.
But what we did there is we went a bit too fast, so we went a bit too niche. So, we went macadamia, we went pistachio. There was a real need and expectation for the customer around better for you or new innovation in plant-based.
The market was too niche. There wasn’t just enough consumers in Australia to justify continuing on that product. So, again, fail fast. But that product in a different with different plant-based foods-
Darren:
So, you’re talking about like the oats, and the soy, and the-
Chris:
Correct, yeah. So-
Darren:
Which seems to be mainly feeding into the cafe society. The plant-based alternative milks are very heavily used in cafes for your espresso coffees. But they haven’t quite seemed to make the leap into the beverage area or the hydration area yet.
Chris:
Yes. I hear the point, and you’re a hundred percent right. And I guess the best way to determine is that the consumer is looking for better for you, the consumer’s looking for something different. They’re looking for different functional needs.
So, there are many consumers out there that can’t stomach dairy products due to the way that their gut works. So, consequently, plant plays a role.
Australia is a very small market in comparison to other global markets. So, what do we got? 27, 28 million people. When you are working in a niche category, our customers expect a certain rate of sale to justify shelf space.
And consequently, if you are unable to deliver that type of rate of sale, there’ll be another category, there’ll be another product that will take that.
And ultimately, what we found as a business is that whilst we were bleeding edge in relation to macadamia, pistachio, leading plant-based drinks, what we weren’t able to do is justify the rate of sale. We weren’t able to deliver the rate of sale. So, whilst the consumer was there and whilst the consumer was buying it, we just didn’t have enough customers.
So, consequently going back to the point where can Bickford’s innovate? Bickford’s can ultimately innovate in either drinks that provide a functional need, or they innovate in extensions of now, our core offer.
And those extensions come from coffee syrups or syrups. Hence the reason when we’ve done flavored dairy, flavored plant, that makes sense to the consumer. And derivatives when it comes to how you mix cordials and potentially how you mix juices.
So, we have a great traditional soda range, which essentially is cordial mixed with sparkling in a beautiful traditional bottle. And that has been able to come to life in cafes, restaurants, bars, clubs because it is a mixed version of the Bickford’s cordial.
So, yeah, where we’ve extended a bit too far and the consumer’s gone, “Well, it’s a bit niche, it’s not quite for me,” and they’re not going to buy enough of it to justify.
So, going back to the other question, where do we not innovate? And we are very, very clear that we will not innovate in alcohol. So, what you won’t find is a Bickford’s alcoholic beverage.
Now, this is an interesting debate. So, Bickford’s initially started as an apothecary. In that apothecary, William Bickford, and Ann Bickford sold syrups and tonics that had alcohol. So, we have the license, we have the storytelling to justify that.
However, it is not the right thing to do as a family orientated brand to produce alcoholic beverages under the Bickford’s logo. So, at this particular point in time, September, 2024, I use that as a caveat that we are not interested at this particular point in time in moving the Bickford’s trademark into a core alcoholic product.
Darren:
So, even though your lime juice cordial, which is excellent, goes very well with one of the boutique gins to make a gimlet, it’s not a product that Bickford’s would actually look at either manufacturing yourself or doing some sort of joint brand promotion?
Chris:
No, no, very happy with joint promotions. No, that’s absolutely fine. Again, we encourage our consumers to use our products in whatever way they see fit.
And ultimately, we have this little line within our business, and we’ve done some comms with it in the past. We turn the ordinary to extraordinary.
So, absolutely take a very basic gin, and rather than cutting up a lime, add a little bit of traditional cordial to that particular drink, elevate that drink to another level. Take our raspberry cordial, add that to a cocktail. So, again, improve that flavor profile, turn the ordinary to extraordinary.
So, no, no, no, we’ve done a lot of different co-collaborations in terms of communications at store level, et cetera. But what we are not looking to do at this particular point in time is have Bickford’s vodka, Bickford’s gin, Bickford’s rum. That doesn’t sit well with us.
Darren:
Yeah. Well, and also, because in that way, you’re allowing the consumer to decide what’s best for them. Because it goes to the core of the wellness of improving someone’s life and health. It’s their choice.
There’s actually intrinsically alcohol still a legal product to buy. So, adults should be allowed to choose how they consume it within the realms of health moderation. Served responsibly, I think the line is that they run on all their ads.
Chris:
Absolutely.
Darren:
Now, you talked about shelf space, but of course, with that very broad product ranging, you’ve got huge and diverse distribution networks, haven’t you?
Because it sounds like everything from you’d immediately think of Bickford’s on the supermarket shelf, but you’re talking about clubs, and restaurants, and bars, and probably convenience stores as well when you look at the entire range. That’s quite a diverse sales network that you need to maintain.
Chris:
Yeah, a hundred percent, Darren. So, yeah, we have the luxury, and it is a luxury to have an extensive sales team that can serve every bricks and mortar customer that exists out there. So, we have dedicated team members.
The focus on Kohls, Woolworth, Metcash, convenience outlets, wholesalers, distributors. As I said, every key touch point.
And it’s really, really important for brands these days to have that ability to access that type of network because there is a major proliferation when it comes to bricks and mortar customers.
When you look at Metcash as a wholesaler, they supply independent supermarkets, great supermarkets like Foodland here in South Australia, IGA and there are other independent supermarkets like Drakes Supermarkets.
For us to be able to call on those customers, provide a solution that will appeal to their consumers, it’s important that you have someone at store level who can actually ensure that the brand is visible, it’s priced appropriately, and it is available for sale.
I mean, out of stocks are one of the major contributors of poor performance. IE if a customer can’t find the product at shelf, they’ll more than likely go elsewhere and find a competitor.
So, it’s absolutely vital to have great people who are servicing your portfolio at point of purchase, whether that’s a great customer conversation or at a store level.
Darren:
And the bigger supermarkets, the Kohl’s and Woolworths, I’ve noticed as they’ve done over the last 20 years with many categories, they bring their own house labels into almost every category. They’ve done that in cordials.
But I think there’s a big difference, isn’t there? Because the Bickford’s packaging product and heritage certainly recognizes the price point that it’s positioned at, whereas most house brands are immediately discounted to that, aren’t they?
Chris:
Yeah, they certainly are. And home brands for forever and a day have appealed to the value consumer who want an offer that is better value. So, consequently-
Darren:
Lower price.
Chris:
Yes, yes, lower price. Let’s go with that. But value can be determined in a couple of different ways. In this particular instance, it absolutely is lower price.
For a manufacturer, for a supplier to deliver lower price, they have to compromise. So, what do they compromise on? They compromise on packaging, they compromise on the format, they compromise on the ingredients. So, consequently, yes, if you want something cheap, you have to compromise.
And on the flip side, with a branded offer like Bickford’s, we don’t compromise. So, we have the best ingredients, the highest quality ingredients, the most ingredients. As an example, the concentrate levels in Bickford’s cordials is the highest concentrate level in any category. We also, have no additives, no preservatives.
Whereas again, to provide a low value offer, you need to do things like add preservatives and add flavors to ensure that you can deliver a beverage that performs to the expectation of the customers.
So, what we pride ourselves on is ensuring that the consumer that buys our brand every day is content that they’re getting a great quality product that is of value.
And our price point is a little bit more than the home brand product, but that’s because of the way that we produce it, the quality that goes into label, glass, capsule, format, ingredients.
Darren:
Now, it’s interesting because I traditionally relate to Bickford’s because of the glass packaging. But you have said some products in the various ranges, you’re using PET and other formats.
I’m just wondering two things. One is glass is seen as infinitely recyclable, so on environmental … but then it also, the weight of it means that some people criticize it for the cost of transportation and distribution, breakages, shrinkage, that type of thing.
I’m just wondering, has that ever been a consideration? Is there a decision making process? Because certainly, it reeks of credibility and quality, even with the embossed bottle.
Chris:
Shoulder.
Darren:
The shoulder, yeah. Just gives it that sort of credibility. It’s a bit like the wine industry. If the bottle’s got a punt in the bottle and an embossing on it, it certainly says that they’ve spent more money on the packaging, so the wine must be good that they put into it. Is that the same sort of thinking here?
Chris:
It’s a really interesting debate. So, Bickford’s cordials since 1874 have been sold in glass. So, there is absolutely a cost saving by moving away from glass to recycle PET because a glass bottle is just more expensive than a preform that you blow and you fill. So, there is absolutely a saving.
And yes, there is a weight differential in relation to glass versus recycle PET or virgin PET format which enables a much better supply chain.
So, in saying all of that though, our consumer has said to us ongoing, and they say to us with the dollars that they spend on our product, is they love our glass bottle. So, our opportunity is to provide solutions to our customers and consumers to allow choice, to allow them to make the choice on what they want to purchase.
So, at this particular point in time, we haven’t moved our glass Bickford’s cordials to recycled PET or virgin PET, because a consumer says to us, “We’re very, very comfortable with glass.”
Are we looking at recycled PET for Bickford’s Cordials? There is absolutely an opportunity for the right sales channel to potentially move into PET. And that sales channel may be convenient sales channels, it could be fast food restaurant channels.
That is an opportunity, one that we continue to investigate. But at this particular point in time, there’s no aspiration to move away from glass, because our customer keeps telling us, “We love the glass product.”
And the reason why they love the glass product is because it says premium, it says quality. People feel comfortable to put a Bickford’s cordial on the table at home with their friends, with their family, and use it almost as a status symbol.
You’re not going to do that with lower value cordials or juices, but mostly cordials because it is not a status symbol. It’s not an element of quality.
We hear stories all the time of people celebrating with Bickford’s cordials, and that celebration moment could be mowing the lawn, it could be a graduation. They celebrate with Bickford’s cordials. It’s part of the ritual of celebration.
So, that glass element is very, very important to the DNA of the product. And absolutely, there is a cost saving that would potentially be there if we did move to PET. That’s not on our radar.
Darren:
It’s interesting because I recently went to a Costco. They had an alcohol section where they had absolute vodka in glass one-liter bottles. And then they had PET two and a half-liter bottles of exactly the same product.
But emotionally, I felt that somehow, I was being cheated. That it was somehow not as good. Rationally, I knew it was exactly the same drink, alcoholic beverage in both. But there is something about the packaging that’s so essential in the emotional connection that you have, or the perception of quality that you have.
Particularly when we’re seeing the big supermarkets encouraging home delivery. That’s the question around glass, because one of the things that they’re desperately trying to do is minimize breakage and minimize weight.
I’d imagine there’d be quite a lot of pressure because the supermarkets in this country certainly do exert quite a lot of influence and pressure on manufacturers, don’t they?
Chris:
Probably the best way to describe it is they’re the voice of their customer. So, if their customer is saying to them weight is an issue, if their customer is saying choice is an opportunity, our customer in this instance, (national customer, local, independent retailer, doesn’t matter who it is) they are the ones who are relaying that feedback back to suppliers.
So, it’s a supplier’s choice therefore, whether they want to, in inverted commas “play that game”.
When you look at glass in a cardboard box, there is no doubt that if we were to put 24 bottles of glass in a cardboard box, that would be too heavy. So, therefore a customer wouldn’t be able to manage that weight. They wouldn’t be able to put that product on shelf. Therefore, that product is not available.
So, there is a fine line between delivering the right product to the customer consumer that enables it to be put in danger of being sold. There are absolutely conversations that go on with the customer that we need to find balance as well, too. That exact example is that there’s a certain format and there’s a certain amount of skews within a format that is optimized for freight.
So, those are the balancing act conversations that we need to have with our customers to ensure we get great freight rates, we get great costs as a consequence into store, so that way we can provide the best value to our customers consumers.
Darren:
You are very customer focused, which is fantastic. I’m just wondering, what are the main mechanisms that you’re getting customer feedback? Is this research? Is it feedback directly from customers? What are the sources of really tapping into what customers are thinking?
Chris:
Okay, Darren, I’m going to lead you along the journey and I’m going to be very, very clear on this one. And unfortunately, research companies aren’t necessarily going to like this. The number one way that we get feedback, it’s called Facebook. It’s free and it’s easy.
So, the example there is that when we were innovating around our 150 flavors, we did some Facebook posts and we got direct feedback from consumers around what they thought around an innovation might be that they would love to see it spring to life. And that exact example is apple cordial. Yeah, cloudy apple cordial or apple cordial.
We had that product deleted many years ago. Our customers online said, “We want it back. We need it back.”
We took that information to our customer, we showed our customer, “Look, at the feedback. Hundreds and hundreds of posts. We want apple cordial. You’ve got to bring back apple cordial. All of our customers from that feedback range the product.”
Now, I didn’t need to spend a dollar of research. I didn’t need to do a test market. All I needed to do is ask a customer, and the customer said to us, that product made sense.
So, today, what we do is we use research to validate our views if we really think we have to. A very, very important decision around, let’s say glass to PET. Absolutely, if we felt that was the right thing to do, we would validate that.
But gone are the days where you would validate every decision with a piece of research. Now, we just go to little old Facebook and ask our customers. And our customers are very transparent, are willing to provide us their view. It’s up to us is whether we take their view or not as gospel to innovate around.
But yeah, that’s the honest truth. We don’t need to spend an odd amount of money on research. I’d rather spend the money on telling consumers about our brands and putting it in danger of being sold.
Darren:
Chris, I think that’s a testament to the level of commitment or the way your customers, consumers feel about the product, that it is important to them, that they are connecting with the brand on social media, that they have almost like a personal relationship with that brand.
I imagine some other brands in the category that don’t have that sort of level of engagement with their customer would struggle to get that sort of feedback. You see a lot of brands trying to use social media to elicit a response and then find they’re talking into an echo chamber rather than actually getting that.
So, I think that certainly shows that level of commitment that you have amongst your loyal customers. They’re probably also, going to be your heavy users as well.
Chris:
Yes, a hundred percent. Inevitably if they’ve bought into our social content, they’re on Dora, they love what we do. And providing them a voice in the decision making potentially more than likely encourages them to go and buy that product as well too. I told them to make it, they’ve made it, I need to go and buy that product.
Going back to the point around emerging brands, it’s a major challenge to innovate in Australia. The expectation of sales rates are high and they have to be done quickly.
So, there are hurdle rates that need to be met, doesn’t matter what the customer is. There’s a hurdle rate that’s expected. And there is to some extent a hurdle rate expected with e-commerce as well too.
So, any new brand that you bring to life, you have to spend, you have to spend quickly, you have to spend in the right areas to get visibility. And then you put trust in the flavor profile or trust in the packaging, or trust in the key features that they will encourage consumers to come back and repurchase that product.
Whilst Bickford’s is very, very important to us, and it’s a sign on the door when you walk into the office every day and it’s on the business card we give our customers, we too have innovated in a lot of areas outside of Bickford’s, and it just takes time. It takes patience, it takes dollars, it takes focus. And there’s a lot of scenarios where it just doesn’t work. So, it’s a real challenge.
And therefore, we take very, very seriously the way that our customers engage with us. Because it’s a luxurious position to have consumers trust and love what you do.
And Bickford’s has that ability to trade off on that, to talk to customers, to leverage off their views because we know that they’re rusted on, they love us. But we take that seriously. So, we can’t take that for granted.
Darren:
Chris Illman, this has been a terrific conversation. Thank you for making time and sharing with us some of the challenges and the results from your innovation 150-year-old brand going strong. Bickford’s Group, here’s to another 150 years.
Chris:
Thank you, Darren. Much appreciated.
Darren:
Before you go though, I’m just interested because I’ve been to Adelaide a few times. When that hot north wind’s blowing and the temperatures heading towards 40 degrees Celsius. What beverage do you use to rehydrate, Chris?